Liches?

[Zorthul]

Hello there, I've recently discovered your site and though I've given your rules, regulations and setting lore many a studious inspection, I cannot seem to uncover any policies regarding immortal, undead sorcerers -- namely liches, though I'm not sure if that's the word one would use to refer to them in this setting. Would this type of character be allowed? If it's restricted, are there any requirements I could fulfill to play one? Thanks for your answers (ahead of time), and I'm very sorry if the answer to my question can be found elsewhere. As I said, I simply couldn't find it.

Hope to hear back from some of you soon.

[Niabi]

I'm don't think any of the rules address what you are asking, however, I would take a look at the New Character Guide.

My biggest concern with such a character is that he sounds as if he may be overpowered. I'd need to actually read over the character first to be sure, but we generally don't like anybody to be immortal as it does take a lot of fun outing placing the character in a bad situation that could very well risk their life.

My other concern is that I'm not sure how you plan to fit such a character into the setting. Will he be walking down the street and chatting about the weather with the townsfolk? Will he look like a living person or some kind of corpse that will scare away everyone in sight? What kind of goals would such a character have? What sort of development do you see for such a character?

[Jerial]

I actually think that a lich would be awesome if played well.

[Kitan]

It would definitely be awesome if played well, but I can't help but think they should be filed under the same catergory as vampires, considering they are both immortal, powerful, undead beings. Which is to say, not for first characters.

Intelligent undead make for relatively easy abuse. They don't need to eat, sleep, or breath right off the bat. They rarely feel pain, except for holy magic, which is notably uncommon around here. They can usually easily lose their limbs to little adverse effect as a result, and a whole mess of other abilities that just come with territory. Add to that the slew of death spells, curses, and necromancy that a lich can weild, and... well. God-modding becomes easy.

Also, the old lich "soul jar/phylactary" however that's spelled regeneration. Probably none of that. If it is kept, I'd make the regeneration last something like a hundred years (so for the functionality of the RP, the lich can die normally, even if it is implied he would return in a century) and turn the soul jar into more of a weakness than a strength, considering that if it's destroyed lich goes bye-bye. With that, they lose one of their main strengths and might even be playable for a first character, provided they are a relatively young lich.

Of course, I'm still pretty much a newbie here. Take everything I said with a grain of salt.

[Zorthul]

To address some of the issues brought up, let me start by posing a question:

What is the difference between a lich, a sorcerer who has lived (through unnatural means) centuries and accrued great knowledge of magic, and say a long-lived being like an elf who also studies magic? Lichdom does not necessary denote enormous power, it is merely a method of attaining longevity. The assumption that a lich is powerful stems from the fact that he was skilled enough to perform the rituals in the first place, but plenty of arcane-users would be that powerful. They simply choose not to, for moral or spiritual reasons. Becoming a lich is merely the process of becoming a sentient corpse, as far as I am able to tell from settings like D&D.

As for where a lich would go and what he would do, of course he wouldn't be wandering down the street in a major city. If I were to create such a character he would be confined to dark, rural areas, reaching out to similarly-minded individuals to strike alliances and use others to infiltrate urban areas for him.

BUT! I understand the concerns behind the idea. If it's generally rejected by the community I'll not darken your doorstep with the suggestion again.

[Jerial]

I see this as being similar to Vanyusha.

[Morveya Aris]

I'm just a newb around here, but I'd like to echo that if played well, it could add alot in terms of creepy ambiance, macabre presence, and general menace. And I think some good points are raised here as regards longevity vs. raw power.

Probably like some others of you, my RPG roots were D&D. To this day, I would still rate a lich as one of THE most night-mare inspiring menaces of all. Vampires and mummies pale by comparison. (er, no offense to any of those roaming Thar Shaddin..)

But I much concur it would need to be heavily tailored for this setting. And too similar to any existing persona is not good.

[Kitan]

Vanyusha is a pretty good point. o.O

But I'll also point out that he can't move faster than a walk and is more or less incapable of offense.

[Frug]

One can always assume the caveat "if played well" applies to all character ideas. There is nothing that can't be played well. Even a sparkly skinned twilight-esque teenaged vampire could be twisted into an interesting character in the right hands.

The reason something like a lich is (probably*) off the table for a first character isn't because it's not possible to play well - it's because of factors like why you would push for that as your first character and the fact that we need to see evidence that you'll do so responsibly. The focus here is never on powers, magical or otherwise, and its important that everyone involved is accepting of that fact.

tl;dr: Pick two: new player, lots of powers, good writing.

Nothing stopping you from experimenting with it later, though.


* I say "probably" because nothing it set in stone and it clearly depends on factors like how old and powerful the "lich" is.

[Morveya Aris]

All well said. However:

"There is nothing that can't be played well."

I understanding the thinking -- but can only agree up to a point. Sparkly teen vampires, as the example -- it's in the "I'll believe it the day I actually see it" bin. Some other concepts as well. But not impossible. I do concede your point.

I've a better handle on who and what Vanyusha is now, too. And he greatly works for my purposes!!

[Jeeko]

The reason you can't imagine sparkly teen vampires being written well is because they've already been established as a stereotype. If that hadn't occurred, you probably wouldn't assume that the idea had so little merit. Same goes for anything. Of course, the fact that people have expectations and preconceived notions could determine whether or not a character works for any audience, but that doesn't mean that the idea can't still be written well if you put all of that aside.

[Dorcas Tansy]

Fully agree that anything--ANYTHING--can be played well. Conceivably, a really amazing player could bust out in a teletubby-looking character that was actually, for example, a freakish aberration of transfiguration. Especially if they avoided tongue-in-cheek humor or downright slapstick, you could do some interesting things with a pathetically weak monster.

However, on the second point I also agree--it's important to us as a board to see that people are capable of making interest out of the more mundane characters, then we're willing to see how mundane you can make a powerful character And then later, just straight-up powerful, once you've enjoyed the board and how seriously we take powers.

[Frug]

Sparkly teen vampires, as the example -- it's in the "I'll believe it the day I actually see it" bin.

What if the lead character in the Twilight saga (I don't know his name, I don't want to know his name) suddenly became morbid, murdered the female love interest, strung her entrails across his lawn, and it turned out that he was using her to get his jollies in a sick game he's been playing with stupid girls for centuries?

What if the school they went to was run by people who knew about all of this, but they went along with it for some morbid reason?

What if he turned her into a vampire and she couldn't handle it, and became a psychopath and he had to choose between killing her or letting her kill random innocent people? There are tons of options on the table. The problem with twilight is mainly that we all know none of these things are even on the table because it's about how he's hunky and sparkly and perfect, except that shirtless werewolf guy also has nice nipples.

The physical characteristics of the character are tools to work with that a good writer can twist to something entertaining no matter what they are. I'm not an amazing writer, but I think I could manage to make it into something not terrible.

[Morveya Aris]

You people make some compelling points.

And I do agree with the last statement.

But, there ARE such things as lame concepts. I've already confessed they can be played well. Just that some are terribly, terribly unlikely. Predominantly for the reason that writers/players with any depth or substance don't go there. (again, usually; not saying never)

And, no, I am sorry -- dislike of sparkly, teen vampires is not rooted in prejudice engendered by bad movies. (that just tosses more sticks on the fire) The concept itself is just one that grates on me. It would irregardless of whether there had been any cinema devoted to it. Based on personal taste in story aesthetics.

Of course, this all does come down to taste. I am an unpublished, wanna be novelist. Meanwhile, someone else has made a fortune, and entertained a humongous adoring audience, with sparkly teen vampires.

(There is no justice in the world. Already come to terms with that.

Also, not sure if anyone's gotten it -- but I am being a little tongue in cheek with this. ~_^)

[Frug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjGsFIHk ... dQ5XgmmWjA