Thoughts on my crisis

Shadowsong · Post by **Shadowsong** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:01 pm

Hi guys, this is a long and unfortunately dire post. Something I'd like people's opinions on.

Here it is. A girl (bad start already, I know), who I used to be friends with, crossed paths with me as I was on my way to see family. We had spoken a few times in the past about rebuilding the friendship whenever she came by where I live (we share the same landlord but live in different buildings, about 5 minutes walk from each other), when we arranged to sort it out in detail she just never showed up (no call, no note, just left me waiting).

Anyway, this girl and I talked things through about what we fell out over and some of the things that she said;

- that she didn't get in touch after not meeting me to sort things out because she thought I wanted her to stay away from me after she let me down (I did send her a note saying I was upset about it and that if she wanted to sort things out that she should do it quickly because I was fed up of dangling on a string), so like the big-bad ogre that I am I said 'I would have preferred it if you told me you wouldn't be there first.'

- that what she would change about what we fell out over would be her (no prompting from me on that).

- that the final result she wanted was for us to be mates again.

Great. The overall impression was that she just didn't know how to handle personal situations/relationships and so she handled it badly. OK, I was expecting there to have been something I did that was a problem, she said there wasn't.

Next day, she writes me a note which I get through my landlord's staff, the note said that she wanted to talk to me to chat and I should let her know what sort of times I am free. Sounds simple enough, yes? And I kept the letter, that will come in useful later.

So I call her to try and arrange a time. No answer. And I checked when we spoke - she was fine with me getting in touch while she was away.

Anyway, I stay at a friend's for the week and I ask the landlord to get a message to her so she knows where I am staying - since she wants to see me knowing where I am should make things easier. When I check with the landlord she says this girl does not want me contacting her and that I am to meet with her @4.30 because 'there are issues to be discussed.'

The concept of being painted as a stalker does NOT appeal to me. In fact, being accused out of the blue was the reason I stopped talking to her to begin with... and that was over a year ago... and I was actually avoiding her at the time she made her first allegation.

What should I do? The most sensible thing seems to be to have nothing to do with her. What complicates things is that I actually do have feelings for her, which is why I gave her the benefit of the doubt so far.

I kept the letter so I can show it to my landlord to prove she did ask me to contact her. I'm getting it photocopied so SOMEONE who cares will get to see it, even if not the landlord.

So please, what advice or support can you give me? I'd like your thoughts.

Thank you.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:29 pm

Now I know I'm not the best person to talk to. Your observations remind me of why I'm glad that I'm married now and I've traded one set of problems for another.

BUT, with that caveat I will tell you that this all sounds kind of weird. What's with the note passing? Is she non-technical? No computer? No email? Does she not believe in telephones and leaving messages? That's strange to me. If you're not interested in ending this now then I highly recommend you find a better way to communicate with her. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of the problem is a miscommunication. How can you know if the landlord was relaying to you her exact words? It might be that she had not intended it to sound like "He is not to contact me!" but rather that she couldn't take a message from you at that particular time.

You're right to cover your back and photocopy the letter. I think this lack of trust is not at all a good way to start any kind of long-term relationship but there are some messed-up people who will take advantage of you if you let them. Be careful.

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Shadowsong · Post by **Shadowsong** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:26 pm

Thanks Philo. Yes, the situation is mightily wierd to me too.

Clarifying (and not the shampoo); she is non-technical, no computer or e-mail. She has a mobile phone but no home phone same as me - but doesn't often have credit, and was not answering my calls.

The bold 'now' suggests you think I should run away and leave skid marks, am I reading that right?

I would like to think that it is just miscommunication, but it sounds like the exact same problem that she and I fell out over last time - her suggesting that I am a stalker (first time it was more serious), so one would hope she would know to avoid giving that impression or miscommunicate the same thing twice.

The exact wording I got from the landlord (well, project manager really) was "There are a few issues to be discussed between yourself and xxxx" (I don't mind using her name but I don't know if I really should on the forum).

I asked if there was a problem and the project manager said "It's to make sure if there isn't one." and "so long as you don't try to contact her there isn't a problem." I think (imperfect memory of this though) that the manager said "She doesn't want you to contact her."

And she wants to meet on the main project to discuss the issues formally. If she doesn't want me in touch why does she want to meet at all?

One of the things I had insisted on when we discussed first re-becoming friends is that she clear my name of the first allegation (since that was what originally broke the friendship), now she has added to it.

I'll agree that lack of trust is not a good way to begin a long term relationship, unfortunately that comes with the fact that we fell out over a year ago and only just really started patching things up. Part of the reason I was prepared to call was because I trusted her not to do a thing like this.

Had she answered a call and said 'I would prefer if you didn't call until I finish my trip away' or something like that it would be fine. It seems like she is telling one thing to me and a completely different thing to staff.

That makes things worse, since how does anything we agree on rebuilding the friendship hold any value if she keeps lying?

Again, thank you for hearing me out. Any more thoughts?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:43 pm

You interpreted the "now" currectly but I would not give yout he advice that you should break it off. That would be the knee-jerk reaction to the situation and if you really care about her there are strong emotions involved and "knee jerk" isn't necessarily the right way to handle it.

At the same time, people don't change overnight. If she accused you of being a stalker before maybe she's still got some issues relating to that time that have nothing to do with now? I think a dialogue is important. You need to have some time sitting and talking with her and establishing a better way to pass messages that don't involve landlords and staff who might start thinking the two of you are creepy.

Post by **Blood Ravenous** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:52 am

Well, that's definitely a situation I've never been in. It seems so weird, maybe it's just me, but I have no real details on what is going on. From what I can tell she might be scared of you or something. I think it is the lack of direct communication that's messing things up. Are you sure the notes you're getting are from her, and not someone she knows messing around? Were you and her going out or were you just friends the whole time? I don't see why you would be a stalker if you weren't seeing her or literally stalking her (like watching her house all the time or something weird).

Shadowsong · Post by **Shadowsong** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:25 am

Agreed. Lack of direct communication is not helping. And agreed. It is really wierd.

If it may help explain things I live in a Housing Association. Most of the people living there are not very well-adjusted.

Problem is, since the first accusation, I agreed with my landlord not to go round to her place so seeing her directly is neither an easy nor a reliable occurance. And as you know, phoning her hasn't had much success. I would prefer sitting and talking with her, but reaching her directly is not that reliable.

Yes, I'm fairly sure the note was from her. I know her writing. I doubt that anyone she knows would really know about me (she's fairly ashamed of the situation) to get a note to me.

As for your other question, we were just friends. She freaked after she found out I liked her (she was ok when she found out, and then was off with me next time I saw her - which is why I was avoiding her at the time). I hadn't seen her for about a week and a half when she approaches our landlord.

On Philo's point about knee-jerk reactions, I think she may have a knee-jerk reaction somewhere in this. Maybe a way to make her feel like she has control of the situation?

What she would be scared of I don't know. Modesty aside, I'm probably one of the gentlest people she has ever met (I do volunteer work for charity, am known for being kind and trustworthy, I share food when I have spare with the other residents who I believe really need it, that sort of thing). Surely she would know she has nothing to be scared of?

And no, I would never even consider watching someone's house all the time. Moral decency aside, I just have much better things to do with my time. That and I'm not really interested in alot of what she does.

What worries me is that the first I hear of these things is when she makes an issue with the staff. For some reason she wont say 'Look, this is bothering me...' We are both 20 years old, am I expecting too much maturity?

Post by **Blood Ravenous** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:19 am

Ohh!! Okay, I get the situation now. Like you said in the first post, she probably isn't good with relationships and didn't know what to do. Hrmm, this is weird as we keep saying

I guess the only options are to send her a note, try to contact her somehow, perhaps contact someone she knows that you are slightly familiar with, or move on.

It would be so much easier if she just had a computer or reliable phone.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:25 am

I was actually going to try not to say more on this topic and yet here I am. I don't know if I could say much about maturity without knowing her. Based on how you describe yourself you seem like an amazingly mature 20 year old. I know I was 23 or so before I had any kind of real relationship with anybody and it still took us 7 years to finally get around to getting married.

But it comes back to communication again. I don't know her mind. There could be something big and scary for her in the notion of relationship, commitment and so on that you don't know about. It might not have reared its ugly head until she found out you liked her and then she maybe couldn't cope?

I don't know any people like that so I really wouldn't know how to handle it except to have a boatload of patience. You know, you're both young. You guys have a lot of years ahead of you. You've already had a few mistakes between you. If you're serious about fixing this, then you might have to give her some space and when you get a chance to talk to her be honest and tell her how you really feel about this mixed message you're getting from her. One moment it seems like she wants to be close and the next you feel like it's deja vu all over again. It's hurtful and you'd like to know where you stand.

Again, I'm no expert and I'm not a psychologist. I just happen to have a few years on you and happen to be one of those people who always seemed to have friends in dramatic crisis through high school and college. (Geeze, why is that?) Anyway I do know that sometimes talking about it helps people to think things through too so just putting the words down has probably helped you as much as reading what other people have to say. I hope you can find some kind of resolution.

Philo/Becky

Jenica Sabiny · Post by **Jenica Sabiny** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:21 am

Enter the bitch:

Get. The fuck. Away. From her.

Honestly. She has established her pattern. She will continue with the same pattern until she lands you in court, at the very least. Just weigh anchor and cast off, mate. She is very much so not worth the extra super duper drama baggage she's carrying.

Shadowsong · Post by **Shadowsong** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:25 pm

First of all thank you to Becky, Ice and Jenica for all your help and your support. I appreciate it and am feeling so much better about this than last night.

And yes, this is still really wierd. It seems to be a tradition that somewhere in the post we each have to point this out

There is still the meeting on Monday, so it is best not contacting her before then. If I try contacting her then I just give her accusation credibility.

Jenica, you have such a way with words.

Reading that actually cheered me up no-end.

I once heard that "insanity is repeating the same behaviour over and over and expecting a different outcome." With the mention of knee-jerk reactions and her not knowing how to handle relationships, Jenica pointing out this girl's pattern made me think of this.

It is a shame to be in love with someone and for it to come as absolutely no surprise that they are a basket-case.

Seriously, at the meeting, I'm going to have to insist that she have some counselling or psychological help of some sort. Even if she is not malicious in her intentions, she as at the least dangerous. This could all happen to someone far less strong-willed or clear-thinking than me and then she could do someone real damage. No way in hell am I waiting for THAT to happen.

This has all been very helpful and I feel so much better for your help. I am grateful and I owe each of you for this.

Further thoughts or advice would be welcome. Espescially about what I should say on Monday.

Thank you.

Post by **Frug** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:44 am

It sounds like you've had some decent advice so far. I somewhat agree with Jess (Jenica) but my own actions would be different, as in it would probably be best to stay away from her, but if I liked her I would be more interested in figuring out what the flip was going on.

You do sound mighty mature and I'm not too experienced with relationships, but I've heard similar stories before and I know how I'd feel. I have encountered some people online I would categorize as completely unstable and dangerous but it's rare, if ever, that I get communication that insane in face to face discussions. I've spoken to people who were being at least as weird as your friend from what I was told, but in person they have never turned out to be quite as nuts as the accusations. If they were, they were hiding it.

So I'd have to agree with everyone above and say it's got to be at least partially miscommunication. If I were you, I'd want to have her tell me to my face that she thinks I'm a stalker and explain whatever else needs to be explained. If you think she's emotionally unstable or even schizoid, you'd best try to be sure. People do those kinds of things without being crazy too. Or at least not crazy in any medical sense, although therapy would probably do some good.

I'm a bit more trusting than Jess and she says I'm dumb for it. I dunno. Maybe she is a basket case and maybe she ain't. Maybe it's something you can work through if she agrees to see a therapist. Don't come to conclusions until Monday and ask her calmly if she thinks you're a stalker. A lot of people do that, come to conclusions in the absense of the person in question, and that ain't fair. No new information has come since you started this thread but your opinion sounds like it's solidified. Be careful with that. Monday is the time to test your hypothesis, make sure it can be revised accordingly.

Shadowsong · Post by **Shadowsong** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:43 pm

Ok. Had the meeting. Wish I hadn't.

Anyway, it turns out she changed her mind about wanting to be mates and found it easier to say 'I don't want him contacting me' than to admit that she was failing to handle things. I don't see how it was hard but I guess it is something she would find harder than I would.

There were things she said had made her uncomfortable. Things she was fine with at the time. Things she even put forward or even asked of me. I was being blamed for her ideas. Seems like a no-win situation really, I suppose describing it helps because I'm hearing what I'm saying and seeing what I type and I realise what the hell I have just gone through.

Had I stormed off in anger and refused to speak to her things would have been easier. Now, I have moments when I feel settled and ok with things, the rest I keep feeling like I have been shot. 2 weeks ago I had assumed we would never speak again and that didn't bother me but now it is almost crippling.

Well, if heartbreak made sense most poets would be out of a job. What I try to remember is that her choice to lie to me about what she wanted is something I am not responsible for. All the things she claimed to have a problem with were her choice, not mine. Both the choice that those things happened/were and the choice to pretend she liked it.

Strangely enough, she cried. And she asked me 'don't make this more difficult for me' but if it was so difficult for her and it made her cry, why do it?

I'm not going to try to get into her head, partly because I guess telepathy would be intrusive and partly because I know I'll never understand her actions because I could never do something like that. That is the thing to remember, we are different people, and maybe the mistake I am making in this is expecting her behaviour and her reasons to make sense to my own standards of integrity and maturity.

Maybe I have said too much, but posting this seems to make things easier. Being the one in the situation can confuse things. My hunch is that I need to meet more women so that things like this don't become such I major event in my life. My choice of therapy will be REALLY LOUD BON JOVI throughout the next few evenings.

So, a Bishan for your thoughts. Am I going about this the right way? Any tips for heartache? Or just that hearing your opinions might make things easier. Thanks.

Post by **Frug** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:11 am

People can be strange indeed...

I would view your not telling her to get lost in the first place as an attempt to retain some kindness rather than a mistake. The cost is some emotional pain but the benefit is personal integrity.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:01 pm

Well it always sucks to fall for a girl with issues but my advice in that situation is to stay away. You don't want any drama in your relationships... troublsome relationships have a way of defining themselves by the very troubles they suffer from, and it becomes a vicious cycle that just eats away at your heart and patience.

I would suggest that you let her know you're quite fond of her but it's obvious that she has some issues to settle, so you're going to let her handle that on her own terms, meanwhile you won't actively approach her but the doors are open anytime she needs a friend.

This way you keep your doors open but at the same time you're letting her know that you're not willing to get involved in her personal issues. It leaves a lot of space for both of you and relieves you of responsibility as well. I'd also suggest you show up a week later with a pretty girl to your place just to make her jealous but that's the asshole in me speaking ;]

Good luck resolving the issue. Don't commit to a relationship amidst trouble, in summation, but if you really have to then leave your doors open and let her walk through it on her own. Remember, you want to keep the ball in your court, don't be dragged along a roller coaster ride of someone else's design.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:26 pm

Thanks Frug. I like that thought. Again it helps to remember that it was her choice to lie to me.

There is comfort in doing the right thing, at least.