Thar Shaddin

First thing I noticed of Blade Song was the complete absence of swordsmanship - instead excessive somersaults too big for any control of movement and wild telegraphed chops which never actually do anything useful in combat.

And good point Uluki. Cleavage in a swordfight should include a painted X labelled "Vital organs! Stab here!"

The song is what makes it. I mean wtf?

To totally gank a line from someone else:

It's a good thing they're wearing ARMOUR. Otherwise they might get HURT.

But Equilibrium was an entertaining movie

Even if it kinda did inspire ultraviolet...

Katana... In Depth.

This is not a rant.

You may notice it is not the katana itself I dislike, but the level of hype surrounding it.

Most of my research deals with comparitive studies, comparing the katana against Western swords. Two good articles on the subject are ARMA with Katana vs Rapier (http://www.thearma.org/essays/katanavs.htm) & Knight vs Samurai (http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm).

A katana blade is effectively made of two different types of metal - an extremely hardened tempered cutting edge to achieve that legendary sharpness, and a thick wedge shape of far softer iron to reduce the shock and vibrations from a powerful cut. This thoroughly optimises the blade for cutting power.

At the sacrifice of durability. Sharpness requires hardness, and with hardness comes brittleness - only a harder material can cut a softer material. Katana are simply not designed to take the same level of abuse as Western swords. An extremely hard edge would be prone to chipping when parried or striking metal armour.

A thick wedge shape also must move more material aside to cut through something. Armour is made out of hard or rigid materials, so the katana-cut is attempting to force aside metal or cuir-bouilli which refuses to bend. So an edge sharp enough to cut the armour would still not create a sufficient gap for the rest of the blade to cut the person beneath it (specialist techniques against armoured opponents supports this - clearly the 15thC Japanese did not believe their swords cut through metal armour).

Personal opinion: For my taste, the cutting power is superfluous - Western swords can consistantly cleave all the way to the bone, even through it. That cut would disable or even kill a foe, I see no compelling reason to sacrifice other advantages to cut deeper.

Second personal opinion: Most skilled professional fighters will wear armour, having a sword weak against armour is a disadvantage against the foes who pose the most threat.

Most of what I know of katana handling is quick-flowing with power from rotating the grip and pushing the hips. Pulling a curved blade in this way makes it slice as it shears. The footwork is mostly linear with short quick hopping or even shuffling steps. There are also lots of references to a close-in "counter-cutting" style.

Side note: Popular Samurai weapons were tanto daggers used for finding gaps in armour while grappling. They also favoured the yari (spear), diakyu (bow) and naginata (a type of polearm).

Japanese Armour:

The main difficulty with this research is the language barrier - the different styles of armour are difficult to tell when so many terms refer to pieces of armour.

Also, contrary to some beliefs, Japanese armour was not made from bamboo. Some armour designs were similar to the katana with both extremely hardened metal and springier metal.

I know of 3 major designs. I will be using Western terms.

Design 1, Lamellar - Overlapping metal scales or plates tied together with either silk cords or leather. Offers excellent protection against edged weapons while allowing good freedom of movement. The lames (small scale-like plates) were deliberately arranged to overlap upwards, so a foe must stab downwards to fit the point of his weapon where the lames overlap - which is impossible for a foot-soldier fighting a mounted samurai.

Mostly this is used for a cuirass (torso), as the lacing is not flexible enough for limb-movement and difficult to keep from sliding down. The main disadvantage of this armour is the extensive cloth lacing when soaked in water and mud became twice as heavy as it normally was, was slow to dry, and created a perfect breeding ground for vermin. Marching through mud, and without access to baths for weeks or months, was an easy way to die of disease.

Design 2, Lacquered leather - Lacquering leather makes it harder and more rigid. While the strength is less than metal, the hardness and rigidity is much the same as wood. A strong direct hit will breach it but a light slice or indirect cut will be deflected. Often the lacquering was brightly or menacingly coloured.

This can cover nearly all of the body, was often the limb-pieces of a warrior in a lamellar cuirass. The lacquering also makes the leather soak up less moisture.

Design 3, Armour of Bands or Splints - Accomplished through lining the inside of a cloth or leather garment with metal plates. This explains some of the 'bulges' in samurai armour, which are pockets for the metal plates sewn onto the inside. Some designs use rivets for the same effect. The leather garment could be brightly lacquered as well.

'Splint' armour is made of long metal strips affixed onto a cloth or leather backing, typically used to protect the limbs.

These are only native armours. Nothing stops a samurai from taking Western armour.

Because several of you boys asked, this is what my instructor said when I asked him wtf we were studying. This all means nothing to me, I'll have you know:

If anyone asks you again, tell them its jujutsu based style out of Okinawa from the Hatamatsu family. It’s a sub-form of Gyokko Ryu Kosshijutsu (style of attacking muscle groups and nerve endings) using a method called Shitojutsu (striking/ripping/grappling using the finger tips and thumbs) developed by Oshiagi Hatamatsu back in the early 1600’s he called Tote Yama Wa. Chugoku Te Bujutsu was so named (China Hand Martial Art) from the parent art of “Tote Yama Wa” (China Hand of the Peaceful Mountain), the art originally taught me by Shinji and Yakura Hatamatsu. I renamed it Chugoku Te because that’s the more modernly accepted term for China Hand. Tote (pronounced: Toe-tay) is the more ancient way of saying it. I broke the art down into 4 sub-styles to make it easier for my students to learn. These are: Tora-Do Kosshijutsu (Muscle/Nerve attackering art of the Tiger) is what you guys are learning now. Hebi-Do Shitojutsu (Finger striking art of the Snake), Kuma-Do Jujitsu (The grappling art of the Bear) and finally we have Tatsu Do Dakentaijutsu (Striking art of the Dragon).

An interest has been expressed during chat in reviving this thread.



Greetings!

Welcome to your next lesson in the fine art of savage violence. Today we learn how to fight with arming sword & round shield. Or more accurately, you learn how to fight with arming sword and round shield, and I do the teaching.

With that out of the way...

Much of your training with falchions works equally well with arming swords, although as not a backsword, the weapon is slightly behind in cutting power. Making up for this is the existance of the thrust. More on that later.


First lesson - Assumptions.

Victory in combat belongs to the fighter who does not make a mistake. With that in mind, a common mistake is to bring faulty beliefs into battle.

Many begin combat mentally dividing sword from shield, thinking that the sword is used to attack and the shield used to defend. These end up swiftly dead. While the sword and shield are obviously different, most techniques depend on combining the two. Weapon and shield should support each other, with the synergy between the two making them most effective.

High on the list of ideas to get rid of is the belief that a shield is purely defensive, moved to intercept blows. Ideal shield-work never allows a foe to swing a blow in the first place. Thrusting the shield out to arms length can push against weapons, and hopefully the weapon arm as well, forcing it harmlessly wide and keeping the enemy weapon out of combat. Many techniques involve pushing with the shield, unbalancing a foe to leave him vulnerable. An alternative is raising the shield to thrust into the face of an opponent, obscuring their vision while you stab underneath.

Just to further demonstrate the offensive potential of the shield is a round iron boss in the center, used to hit people with. Striking with the edge or the rounded boss (again, simply thrust outwards from the center of the shield) is intended to daze or wind a foe so that they are vulnerable to a follow-up strike, although it is also possible to cave in a man's skull, which would also count as good aggressive use of a shield.


Second lesson - Optimal Facing.

Combat with weapon and shield is slightly less flexible than combat without, because of the limited positioning and angles. Effective shield-work leads with the shield, using it to force limits on the enemy. This involves accepting limits to oneself. For example, shields are directional, and can only face one way at a time. While a two-handed weapon can be used from any angle full use of the shield is focused in a single direction. Ironically this makes a shield-bearer more vulnerable to flanking and being outnumbered.


Third lesson - Leverage.

Leverage with a shield is one major advantage. For one thing, the shield can be braced against a bunched up shoulder, which combined with a solid stance can be difficult to budge. Conversely, pressing the shield against a foe grants excellent control of their body, as the shield can push with one half or the other, with a braced shoulder if need be, and requires only a simple turn of the shoulder to reverse direction by pressing the other half of the shield against them (at the opposite angle).

Tilting the shield is a simple motion which causes enemy momentum to simply slide off the shield. Ideal against foes who overcommit. The central grip of the shield contained within the boss helps with that, with the deflective shape of the boss preventing blows from straining the wrist itself.


Fourth lesson - Blade variety.

Arming swords are excellent cut and thrust weapons, although the strongest cuts all use the same edge aiming strikes with the false edge can be used to defeat a shield because the arm can bend in the direction of the attack and snake the blade around the defending shield to cut against the foe behind. Most effective in making 'false-edge' cuts at the top of the shield, as snaking the blade over is less vulnerable to a shield bind.

This is one move which can only be attempted with a shield, since it fully commits the attacking weapon which becomes unavailable for defence.

Thrusts are deadly for many reasons. For one, it is faster, the blade taking a more direct route to the target (thus crossing less distance). For another, it generally requires less room, making it effective when pressing shields or for exploiting smaller gaps in the defences. For a third, they concentrate force against a smaller area, and although building up less momentum than a swing a slash can cut across flesh without going deep but a thrust naturally sinks into the victim, as well as fitting within any breach punched through armour.


Fifth lesson - Shield Design.

The round shield uses a central grip and requires no secondary straps, so if strapped onto the back with a guige it can be gripped in one hand and the guige cleared with the other to ready the shield swiftly. That takes all but a few moments, presumably drawing the arming sword immediately afterwards.

When using that quick-shift technique, simply drop the spear on the ground with the intention of retrieving it later. Spears are cheap.



Anyway, that is all I can think of for now. Most of this will work with your falchion as well if you choose to combine that with shield.

Enjoy.

What an interesting and great topic. I've only dabbled in martial arts, and I love learning new stuff. Unfortunately, with moving around so much, I haven't had time to sit down and learn anything well enough to be called proficient. I've studied Kung Fu (Wah Lum Pai- Northern Mantis), Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, a specialised "kung fu" that was kind of a cross with Persian Nabard ( in which I did learn a nun-chaku-form, Sai-form, Fan-form, and a butterfly sword form), and even took a semester in fencing at college. I finally learned a teensy bit of grappling, based on jiu-jitsu in a sparring class I took that was MMA/UFC type stuff. I did not like Tae Kwon Do very much, but I loved kung fu and when i finally settle in one place, i will definately find someplace to study that again.

I'm no expert but from reading the past posts, I've got a few things to add:

Sai- Yes, they were based from farming tools, but a popular misconception is that the prongs are sharp. I suppose they could be sharpened, but the original form were not sharp- they serve to deflect and disarm longer ranged weapons such as swords, which samurai would use against "unarmed" peasants. Catch a blade in the prongs correctly and you twist the sai to disarm your foe. Weapons, as I understand it, were illegal for anyone other than the samurai class to own- so these were "weapons" of self-defense. The handles were heavy and sais are actually bludgeoning weapons, not poking and stabbing weapons.

Unarmed combat- I know the very basics of grappling, nothing too fancy, but the premise behind it is pressure points and joint manipulation. If you can take someone to the ground, or work in close to somebody, you can use techniques to make your foe submit. READ technique- which means you do not need to be super strong (though it helps) or need a weight or reach advantage. Think about it from an engineering stand point- it takes a lot less force to bend a joint than break something solid and when you are in close to somebody, you probably don't have the distance you need to build up momentum to break something.

On pressure points- there are two kinds- pressure on nervous system, and pressure on circulatory system. I do not know much about nervous system pressure points- I think there's a nerve that runs along the inside of your leg that hurts a lot when you hit it, and I think that you can "harden" the nervous system with repeated strikes. The circulatory system however, is the fastest way to take someone down with a choke. A windpipe choke can last minutes because the body has residual oxygen. A blood choke, where you pinch off the cartiod arteries, cuts off oxygen to the brain much more effectively, causing your foe to pass out after only a few seconds. I guess the advertised length is anywhere from 4-10 seconds. I've been subject to one and they aren't kidding.

And that's the limit to my knowledge.

(edited once because i forgot the nun-chaku form that i learned... didn't learn much about nun-chucks though, they hurt when you don't time it right.... )